Date: Thu Dec 18 10:10:21 2008

Author: J. Terrence Klopcic

Subject: Hover pucks

Post:

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Speaking of hover pucks, has anyone found a good source of replacement
batteries for the Kick Dis pucks? It appears that Estes has
discontinued the pucks - and the original batteries (NiCd I believe) die.

If not, has anyone successfully retrofit standard rechargeable AA
batteries into the cavity occupied by the original Kick Dis battery?
The original is a 6v battery, so 4 AAs shoudl work. (There would
certainly be a balance issue - but might not be insurmountable if the
AAs were placed symmetrically.)

Terry

* J. Terrence Klopcic, PhD
Director of Laboratories
Departments of Physics and Mathematics
Kenyon College*



Krishna Chowdary wrote:
> I've used VideoPoint, and I recall it was pretty easy. Since you've
> already got it, I recommend trying it. As far as I know, the video
> analysis feature in LoggerPro is just a scaled down version of
> VideoPoint; someone should correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Those of you who have done this or thinking about doing this:
>
> Do you have any good ideas for sticking collisions (let's assume we're
> talking about an air table, but if you are using hover-pucks, I'd like
> to hear those experiences as well)?
>
> Do you have any good ideas for making "dumb-bells" so that we can see
> conservation of angular momentum as well as linear momentum?
>
> -Krishna
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Alan Goldblatt
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Krishna and Paul,
>>
>> We're going to play around with that basic camera-on-the-ceiling setup.
>> Also with several different software options. Kind of funny -- we actually
>> have LabView (Dartmouth isn't quite its own country, and is cutting budgets,
>> but almost...) but it's rather too complicated for students to use in lower
>> level classes. Ironically, we don't have LoggerPro, which everyone else
>> seems to have, but I'm checking it out -- looks pretty cool, actually. And
>> yes, we have VideoPoint too, that we got years ago for something else, but
>> we've never ended up using it -- will have to try it out (I wonder if
>> .anyone. has ever used it)....
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>> Paul Nord wrote:
>>
>>> Alan,
>>>
>>> We do the air table with a video camera mounted to the ceiling. We get
>>> very good results.
>>>
>>> We're using World in Motion for video analysis. That program seems to
>>> have been abandoned. The interface is getting a little dated.
>>>
>>> I looked at Vernier's software and I'm excited to see it develop. Right
>>> now it doesn't work very well.
>>>
>>> There a free Java program called Tracker that does almost everything. But
>>> it's shareware and can be a little hard to get started with.
>>>
>>> Video Point is the other title that's come up from time to time. I've
>>> never seen that program in action.
>>>
>>> And if you come from a small neutral European country where money is no
>>> object, you could buy LabView and do some really amazing things. It can
>>> even render frame-by-frame analysis and find the center of objects all by
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> We evaluated some RF transmitter devices for doing this experiment as you
>>> suggest. That was years ago. It didn't work very well. The position
>>> measurements were not very precise.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2008, at 11:02 PM, Krishna Chowdary wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Alan
>>>>
>>>> I think video analysis would work very well. I've done something
>>>> similar with two hoverpucks colliding on the floor, and got high
>>>> quality data with a simple webcam mounted above the floor. The
>>>> standard video analysis issues apply: need sufficient light, good
>>>> frame rate, parallax can be a problem (wasn't for my test run). We
>>>> got very good data; could easily see momentum conservation in two
>>>> dimensions and could calculate the motion of the system center of
>>>> mass. Note: I haven't implemented this with students yet. The
>>>> current version of LoggerPro comes with a video capture and video
>>>> analysis feature. It's not as fast as a motion detector, but it's
>>>> faster than spark tape or a spark table, and if students have used
>>>> video analysis software before, it should go pretty quickly.
>>>>
>>>> I think other people here have write-ups. I asked for some a couple
>>>> of years ago and received some nice ones, but don't have them on this
>>>> machine.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this might fit your bill.
>>>>
>>>> -Krishna
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Alan Goldblatt
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know of a good setup for tracking motion in two dimensions?
>>>>> We'd like to setup something like an air table on which we could, for
>>>>> example, send in a puck which would then collide (either elastically or
>>>>> not)
>>>>> with another puck. We'd like to be able to track the motions such that,
>>>>> ideally, they'd produce a nice position vs. time graph in 2 dimensions
>>>>> on a
>>>>> computer. And yes, with enough accuracy that students could do good
>>>>> quantitative analysis of the results.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks much,
>>>>> Alan Goldblatt
>>>>>
>>>>>

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Speaking of hover pucks, has anyone found a good source of replacement
batteries for the Kick Dis pucks? It appears that Estes has
discontinued the pucks - and the original batteries (NiCd I believe)
die.

If not, has anyone successfully retrofit standard rechargeable AA
batteries into the cavity occupied by the original Kick Dis battery?
The original is a 6v battery, so 4 AAs shoudl work. (There would
certainly be a balance issue - but might not be insurmountable if the
AAs were placed symmetrically.)

Terry




J. Terrence Klopcic, PhD

Director of Laboratories

Departments of Physics and Mathematics

Kenyon College




Krishna Chowdary wrote:

I've used VideoPoint, and I recall it was pretty easy. Since you've
already got it, I recommend trying it. As far as I know, the video
analysis feature in LoggerPro is just a scaled down version of
VideoPoint; someone should correct me if I'm wrong.

Those of you who have done this or thinking about doing this:

Do you have any good ideas for sticking collisions (let's assume we're
talking about an air table, but if you are using hover-pucks, I'd like
to hear those experiences as well)?

Do you have any good ideas for making "dumb-bells" so that we can see
conservation of angular momentum as well as linear momentum?

-Krishna

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Alan Goldblatt
wrote:


Thanks Krishna and Paul,

We're going to play around with that basic camera-on-the-ceiling setup.
Also with several different software options. Kind of funny -- we actually
have LabView (Dartmouth isn't quite its own country, and is cutting budgets,
but almost...) but it's rather too complicated for students to use in lower
level classes. Ironically, we don't have LoggerPro, which everyone else
seems to have, but I'm checking it out -- looks pretty cool, actually. And
yes, we have VideoPoint too, that we got years ago for something else, but
we've never ended up using it -- will have to try it out (I wonder if
.anyone. has ever used it)....

-Alan

Paul Nord wrote:


Alan,

We do the air table with a video camera mounted to the ceiling. We get
very good results.

We're using World in Motion for video analysis. That program seems to
have been abandoned. The interface is getting a little dated.

I looked at Vernier's software and I'm excited to see it develop. Right
now it doesn't work very well.

There a free Java program called Tracker that does almost everything. But
it's shareware and can be a little hard to get started with.

Video Point is the other title that's come up from time to time. I've
never seen that program in action.

And if you come from a small neutral European country where money is no
object, you could buy LabView and do some really amazing things. It can
even render frame-by-frame analysis and find the center of objects all by
itself.

We evaluated some RF transmitter devices for doing this experiment as you
suggest. That was years ago. It didn't work very well. The position
measurements were not very precise.

Paul



On Dec 16, 2008, at 11:02 PM, Krishna Chowdary wrote:



Hi Alan

I think video analysis would work very well. I've done something
similar with two hoverpucks colliding on the floor, and got high
quality data with a simple webcam mounted above the floor. The
standard video analysis issues apply: need sufficient light, good
frame rate, parallax can be a problem (wasn't for my test run). We
got very good data; could easily see momentum conservation in two
dimensions and could calculate the motion of the system center of
mass. Note: I haven't implemented this with students yet. The
current version of LoggerPro comes with a video capture and video
analysis feature. It's not as fast as a motion detector, but it's
faster than spark tape or a spark table, and if students have used
video analysis software before, it should go pretty quickly.

I think other people here have write-ups. I asked for some a couple
of years ago and received some nice ones, but don't have them on this
machine.

Hope this might fit your bill.

-Krishna

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Alan Goldblatt
wrote:


Hello all,

Does anyone know of a good setup for tracking motion in two dimensions?
We'd like to setup something like an air table on which we could, for
example, send in a puck which would then collide (either elastically or
not)
with another puck. We'd like to be able to track the motions such that,
ideally, they'd produce a nice position vs. time graph in 2 dimensions
on a
computer. And yes, with enough accuracy that students could do good
quantitative analysis of the results.

Suggestions?

Thanks much,
Alan Goldblatt










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