Date: Thu Feb 15 16:02:15 2007

Author: Sam Sampere

Subject: Re: Van de Graaffs

Post:
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Hi John,
=20
When's the last time you cleaned your belt and rollers? That little =
Winsco should put out about 15 uA. The old Cencos can put out about 25 =
uA.
=20
I clean everything, including the plastic column, with either methanol =
or ethanol, whichever is handy. Make sure to clean both rollers, and =
both surfaces of the belt. Someone is going to scream not to clean =
plexiglas with alcohol. I've only had one column go bad, and it wasn't =
from cleaning. So I had my shop make up another one. Not a problem, even =
if you don't have a shop. You could do it with hand tools. Honest.=20
=20
Sam

________________________________

From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu on behalf of John Welch
Sent: Thu 2/15/2007 3:45 PM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [tap-l] Van de Graaffs


With my Winscos, I can't get any more than 8 uA. What kind of small =
generator do you have that is putting out 25 uA?

-John


Sam Sampere wrote:=20

Exactly right.
=09
You can measure it.
=09
First, connect the top combs to the bottom combs through a
micro-ammeter. Smaller units put out ~25 microamps. My big one pegs my
100 micro-ammeter. At slow speeds, the charging current is small. You
can guess what happens at higher speeds.
=09
Next, put the ground electrode some distance away with the dome on the
VdG. At slow speeds you may not get an arch, the dome discharges before
an arc. Raise the speed and you increase the potential, hence electric
field, and you can get an arc, even though you didn't change the
separation.=20
=09
Sambo
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] On
Behalf Of Bernard Cleyet
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:28 PM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [tap-l] Van de Graaffs
=09
To exceed the leakage. My limited experience is one obtains a higher=20
potential w/ greater speed up to the max. speed of the belt.
=09
bc, still an adolescent
=09
Michael A Thomason wrote:
=09
=20

Sam,
=09
=09
=09
Why do you need a fast motor for a Van de Graaff? Most Van de Graaffs
=20

spin
=20

too fast. It only takes a few revolutions of the belt to completely
=20

charge
=20

up the dome, which you can do by hand with a hand-cranked generator.
=09
=09
=09
The most damage to belts is done by spinning the belt too fast so it
=20

loses
=20

contact with the roller as it starts to change direction around the
=20

roller
=20

due to its linear momentum and gets thrown into the comb. I agree =
they
should have speed controls.
=09
=09
=09
I can see needing a faster motor possibly for your monster, but why do
=20

you
=20

need more current for a smaller one? =20
=09
=09
=09
Michael Thomason
=09
Director of Physics Learning Laboratories
=09
University of Colorado Boulder Department of Physics
=09
303-492-7117
=09
thomason@colorado.edu
=09
http://physicslearning.colorado.edu=20
=09
=09
=09
_____ =20
=09
From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] =
On
Behalf Of Sam Sampere
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:14 AM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [tap-l] Van de Graaffs
=09
=09
=09
If it's not a fluke, then their QC has gone down. I got the optional
=20

larger
=20

dome. The dome is very nice. Like Dick mentioned, their motor doesn't
=20

turn
=20

fast enough, and there isn't a speed control.=20
=09
=09
=09
And the darn thing wasn't grounded properly!!! Ugh! It think that old
=20

Cenco
=20

unit, even though it doesn't have the speed control, blows this one
=20

away.
=20

Sam
=09
=09
=09
_____ =20
=09
From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu on behalf of Michael A Thomason
Sent: Tue 2/13/2007 5:51 PM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [tap-l] Van de Graaffs
=09
Sam,
=09
=09
=09
I'm hoping the one you bought is a fluke. Otherwise, their quality
=20

control
=20

has gone way downhill.
=09
=09
=09
I have three of the large Science First Van de Graaffs (one was =
donated
=20

from
=20

an undergrad research project); it is my favorite of all the
=20

commercially
=20

available ones. None of mine were purchased as recently as yours
=20

though, so
=20

it's possible production has changed.
=09
=09
=09
It is the most trouble-free, reliable, and the largest of any of the
commercial, educational generators I know of, especially with their
=20

optional
=20

44-cm dome on top. I've never had to replace a belt or adjust a comb
=20

on a
=20

big Science First. (Belt life seems to have a lot to do with belt
thickness.) The Winscos and Cencos are a completely different story.
=20

The
=20

Science First was also less expensive than comparable Van de Graaffs,
=20

at
=20

least when I purchased mine.
=09
=09
=09
The design and materials are not quite as nice as I would like, and =
the
output voltage is not quite as high as I would expect for a 17-inch
=20

sphere,
=20

but those are minor complaints.
=09
=09
=09
Michael Thomason
=09
Director of Physics Learning Laboratories
=09
University of Colorado Boulder Department of Physics
=09
303-492-7117
=09
thomason@colorado.edu
=09
http://physicslearning.colorado.edu=20
=09
=09
=09
_____ =20
=09
From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] =
On
Behalf Of Sam Sampere
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:07 PM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [tap-l] Van de Graaffs
=09
=09
=09
I'm referring to the big one. Do you have one??
=09
=09
=09
Sam
=09
=09
=09
_____ =20
=09
From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] =
On
Behalf Of Michael A Thomason
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:43 PM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [tap-l] Van de Graaffs
=09
=09
=09
Sam,
=09
=09
=09
Are you referring to the big Science First Van de Graaff, or the =
little
=20

one?
=20

Michael Thomason
=09
Director of Physics Learning Laboratories
=09
University of Colorado Boulder Department of Physics
=09
303-492-7117
=09
thomason@colorado.edu
=09
http://physicslearning.colorado.edu=20
=09
=09
=09
_____ =20
=09
From: tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:tap-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] =
On
Behalf Of Sam Sampere
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 2:03 PM
To: tap-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: [tap-l]=20
=09
=09
=09
I picked up a Science First Van de Graaff generator over the summer =
for
=20

loan
=20

to HS teachers. I've used it a couple times and have been pretty
disappointed in it. I should have realized that when the front panel
=20

reads
=20

"Van de Graff". The correct spelling is Graaff.=20
=09
=09
=09
I also heard what sounded like arcing coming from inside the base. =
When
=20

I
=20

opened it up and turned it on and looked, I could see arcs from one of
=20

the
=20

fuse connectors to the other. Hmmm. Why would the fuse be arcing to
=20

itself??
=20

Why is the charging current so small - barely noticeable on a 100 =
micro
=20

amp
=20

meter. Turns out that the motor ground isn't connected to the chassis.
=20

Oh,
=20

the chassis is floating! So the supplied ground terminals aren't =
really
ground at all because they're not connected.=20
=09
=09
=09
A simple alligator clip connecting building ground to the base solved
=20

all
=20

the problems. 25ish microamps, no arcing at the fuse, no shock turning
=20

off
=20

the VdG, etc. Geesh!
=09
=09
=09
As far as small VdGs go, I think I like the Winsco best. Unless you
=20

have an
=20

old Cenco unit. Those are great, especially when you make new pulleys
=20

out of
=20

gray PVC and acrylic as Cliff suggested eons ago.
=09
=09
=09
Sam
=09
=09
=09
--------------------------=20
Sam Sampere=20
Syracuse University=20
Department of Physics=20
201 Physics Building=20
Syracuse, NY 13244=20
315-443-5999=20
315-443-9103 (fax)=20
=09
=09
=09
=20
=09
=20

=09
=20


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